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--- personal_names [2021/08/01 12:01] – morgoth
+++ personal_names [2023/09/07 19:38] (current) – external edit 127.0.0.1
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 ===== Personal names =====
-Here is the list of names of orcs with //approximate// translation (based on "Etymologies" chapter of "The Lost Road and Other Writings"). Sources of the translations is often [[abbreviations|abbreviated]]. I saw some similar translations of some names but without any source, so they can be purely speculative, based on some titles/nicknames/etc., such translations are marked with strike-through. Few undoubtful interpretations are marked with **bold**. Most names of 1st Age orcs are considered to be in [[elven_languages|Elvish tongues]], not in Black Speech, however their form is often not exactly the same as Sindarin/Noldorin/Quenya/Gnomish, so they are either their Westron adaptations or from Orcish dialects. Some names are even given in two variants: Orcish and Elvish/Gnomish. Nûrlâm treats //some// of Elvish names of evil creatures as Debased Black Speech, e.g. Sindarin word incorporated into Black Speech is "gûl" meaning "necromancy", but translated together with genuine Black Speech "nazg" as "ring-wraiths" in "Nazgûl".
+Here is the list of names of orcs with //approximate// translation (based on "Etymologies" chapter of "The Lost Road and Other Writings"). Sources of the translations is often [[abbreviations|abbreviated]]. I saw some similar translations of some names but without any source, so they can be purely speculative, based on some titles/nicknames/etc., such translations are marked with strike-through. Few undoubtful interpretations are marked with **bold**. Most names of [[angband_orcish|1st Age orcs]] are considered to be in [[elven_languages|Elvish tongues]], not in Black Speech, however their form is often not exactly the same as Sindarin/Noldorin/Quenya/Gnomish, so they are either their Westron adaptations or from Orcish dialects. Some names are even given in two variants: Orcish and Elvish/Gnomish. Nûrlâm treats //some// of Elvish names of evil creatures as Debased Black Speech, e.g. Sindarin word incorporated into Black Speech is "gûl" meaning "necromancy", but translated together with genuine Black Speech "nazg" as "ring-wraiths" in "Nazgûl".
 ^ Name ^ Description / Occurrence ^ Translation ^ Etymology ^
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 | Gorbag | orc captain in Minars Morgul (LOTR) killed by Shagrat | //violent shit// or //violent torture//,\\ <del>tough shit</del> (LOS),\\ <del>brain-dung</del> (HG((Horngoth Orkish))),\\ <del>chosen</del> (EH) | //bag// is from //bagronk// from [[orcish_curse|Orc-curse]], possibly from WAGH (to stain, soil)\\ \\ "GOR" means "violence, impetus, haste, vigor" (Etym.)\\ \\ EH(([[http://elhath.tripod.com/powl.htm]])) "gorb-" (choose) < KIL-², Quenya "cilmë" |
 | Gorgol | 1st Age (The History of Middle-earth Volume III: The Lays of Beleriand, The Lay of Leithian poem: Of Beren, son of Barahir & his escape) | //butcher// (HOME III)((mentioned in the poem as "Gorgol the Butcher", but this doesn't mean his name translates so, maybe it's his monicker)),\\ //dreadful sorceror// (EK),\\ //violent triumphant// | probably from Sindarin "gaur" + "gôl" (dreadful sorceror) (EK), more likely from "gor" + "gûl", as standard Sindarin translation of "gaur" is "werewolf"\\ \\ see //Gorbag// for "gor"\\ \\ ? "gol" possibly from GYEL-, GEL- (the call, triumph) or ÑGOL (wise) which blends with "gor" worse in meaning |
-| Gothmog | In LOTR III, The Return of King he was called Lieutenant of Minas Morgul, second in command of Nazgûl, but in Unfinished Tales this character was called Khamûl. In The Silmarillion this name refers to the lord of Balrogs. And in some draft to Silmarillion he is even called a "son of Melkor". The name is in Sindarin. His name in Primitive Elvish is //Gothombauk// and //Kosomot// in Eldarin. In some draft not included in HOME, 3rd age Gothmog was suggested as name of Voice of Sauron, but was changed later. "The List of Names" of LR contradicts with Etymologies chapter and gives translation "Voice of Goth (Morgoth), an Orc-name", the name Morgoth itself is translated as "mor" = "dark or black", "Goth" = "Lord or Master" | dread oppressor,\\ dread tyrant,\\ hateful warrior, strife-and-hatred (early works),\\ Master's voice (dismissed Orcish translation) | Etym: GOTH (dread, terror),\\ "MBAW" (oppress, force, compel)\\ \\ The List of Names: in Orquin((aka Angband Orcish, AO)) "goth" means "lord, master" and "mog" is "voice" \\ \\ BOLT II: "mog" is "hate" in Gnomish, "moko" with same meaning in Qenya (spelled such in early works) and "goth" is "war"\\ \\ "goth" also may be from "KOT" (enemy) as in Morgoth = "Black Foe" |
+| Gothmog | In LOTR III, The Return of King he was called Lieutenant of Minas Morgul, second in command of Nazgûl, but in Unfinished Tales this character was called Khamûl and dwelled in Dol Guldur. In The Silmarillion this name refers to the lord of Balrogs. And in some draft to Silmarillion he is even called a "son of Melkor". The name is in Sindarin. His name in Primitive Elvish is //Gothombauk// and //Kosomot// in Eldarin. In some draft not included in HOME, 3rd age Gothmog was suggested as name of Voice of Sauron, but was changed later. "The List of Names" of LR contradicts with Etymologies chapter and gives translation "Voice of Goth (Morgoth), an Orc-name", the name Morgoth itself is translated as "mor" = "dark or black", "Goth" = "Lord or Master" | dread oppressor,\\ dread tyrant,\\ hateful warrior, strife-and-hatred (early works),\\ Master's voice (dismissed Orcish translation) | Etym: GOTH (dread, terror),\\ "MBAW" (oppress, force, compel)\\ \\ The List of Names: in Orquin((aka Angband Orcish, AO)) "goth" means "lord, master" and "mog" is "voice" \\ \\ BOLT II: "mog" is "hate" in Gnomish, "moko" with same meaning in Qenya (spelled such in early works) and "goth" is "war"\\ \\ "goth" also may be from "KOT" (enemy) as in Morgoth = "Black Foe" |
 | Grishnákh ((also spelled as "Gríshnák" in earlier draft, "Treason of Isengard" (HOME 7) )) | orc captain of Mordor, slain by Rohirrim (LOTR II) | //severed hand//,\\ //cut-and-bite//,\\ <del>bloody hand</del> (LOS, HG) | ? //grish// < KIRIS, RIS (cut); compare with Sindarin "criss"\\ \\ ? //nâkh// < NAK (to bite) or MAGH (hand) |
-| Khamûl | see Gothmog, the commander in second of the Ringwraiths (Unfinished Tales, part 3, chapter 4). This name is possibly in some mannish language | <del>wraith of Khand</del> (EK)\\ \\ <del>fury's way</del> (HG) | probably from Khand + gûl (EK)\\ \\ //mûl// < Quenya "malle" (street, road) < MBAL |
+| Khamûl | see Gothmog, the commander in second of the Ringwraiths (Unfinished Tales, part 3, chapter 4). This name is possibly in some mannish language. Khamûl is also called "Shadow of the East", "The Black Easterling" | <del>wraith of Khand</del> (EK)\\ \\ <del>fury's way</del> (HG) | probably from Khand + gûl (EK)\\ \\ //mûl// < Quenya "malle" (street, road) < MBAL |
 | Lagduf | an orc of Cirith Ungol, killed by Morgul Orcs (LOTR III), | //gloomy sword//, //night blade//, \\ <del>knife-breaker</del> (LOS),\\ <del>breaking?</del> (HG) | < LAG (sword) \\ \\ ? //duf// < DAB (allow, permit) or DUB (lie heavy), Noldorin "dofn" (gloomy) or DOGH, DÔ,DOMO (night, dark, gloom, faint, dim) |
 | Lug((appears as "lûg" in unedited "Name-list to the Fall of Gondolin")) | Fall of Gondolin (The Book of Lost Tales) | snake (PE 15, p. 28 and PE 13, p. 105) | see Lugburz, but in BOLT it's possibly from LOK (serpent, dragon) as in "urulóke"|
 | Lugdush | an orc of Isengard, slain by Rohirrim (LOTR II) | **Tower sorcery** | see Lugburz, Dushgoi |
 | Lughorn | an orc of Isengard (LOTR II) | //tower-wolf//,\\ <del>tower beast</del> (LOS, HG) | see Lugburz\\ \\ ? //horn// < Doriathrin "garm", Quenya "harma" (wolf), Etym. "GHARAM" |
-| Mauhúr | an orc captain from Isengard (LOTR II) | //fierce warrior//,\\ <del>brave warrior</del> (LOS),\\ <del>revenge</del> (HG) | Qenya "mahtar" (warrior) < MAK\\ \\ Noldorin "hûr" (vigour, fiery spirit) < KHOR |
+| Mauhúr | an orc captain from Isengard (LOTR II) | //fierce warrior//,\\ //berserk//,\\ <del>brave warrior</del> (LOS),\\ <del>revenge</del> (HG) | Qenya "mahtar" (warrior) < MAK\\ \\ Noldorin "hûr" (vigour, fiery spirit) < KHOR |
 | Muzgash | orc of Cirith Ungol killed by Morgul Orcs (LOTR III) | //evening fire//,\\ <del>hot fire</del> (LOS),\\ <del>hostile one</del> (HG)| from "ghâsh" (fire)\\ \\ ? "muz" < Sindarin "moth", Qenya "muske" (dusk) |
 | Naglur-Danlo | orc of Cirith Ungol (The War of the Ring) | | |
 | Nûzu | orc of Cirith Ungol (The War of the Ring), replaced by Shagram | | |
 | Orcobal | an orc leader in the Fall of Gondolin, not a BS name | //mighty orc//, //cruel orc// | Qenya "orko", Sindarin "bâl" (divine power), "beleg" (mighty), Gnomish "balc" (cruel), see Balcmeg |
-| Othrod | an orc leader in the Fall of Gondolin, The Qenya/Eldarin form of his name was Osorot | //mountain-like// | ? OS- (about, around) \\ \\ ÓROT (mountain) |
+| Othrod | an orc leader in the Fall of Gondolin, The Qenya/Eldarin form of his name was Osorot | //mountain-like//,\\ <del>Lord of the Host</del> (MERP) | ? OS- (about, around) \\ ÓROT (mountain)\\ ROD (cave)\\ \\ ? Sindarin "hoth" (host, horde) + Early Noldorin "-rod" agentive suffix |
 | Radbug | an orc of Cirith Ungol killed by Shagrat | <del>calling (now)</del> (LOS),\\ <del>strider</del> (HG) | ? bug < Noldorin "baug" (tyrannous, cruel, oppressive) < Etym. "MBAW" |
 | Rog | Rog the Fleet, a name given to Egnor (father of Beren, later renamed to Barahir) by orcs (1st Age, BOLT II: I. The Tale of Tinúviel) | | |
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 | Ufthak | an orc of Cirith Ungol, captured by Shelob (LOTR III) | <del>scary face</del> (LOS) | uf < UGU (negative prefix), ÚLUG, ÚLGU (horrible, hideous)\\ \\ thak < THÊ (a look, face) |
 | [[orcish_curse|Uglúk]] | an Uruk-hai captain of Isengard slain by Eomer (LOTR III) | <del>frighten everybody</del> ([[alexandre_nemirovsky|Nemirovsky]]),\\ <del>slayer of all</del> (LOS) | ? Hurrian "ugil" (frighten)\\ ? UGU (negative prefix)\\ ? ÚLUG, ÚLGU (horrible, hideous) |
-| Yagûl((also spelled "Yagool", see WJ)) | orc of Minas Morgul (mentioned in Sauron Defeated and The War of the Ring), replaced by Gorbag | ? wraith, \\ <del>grey wraith</del> (HG) | ? yag < YA (old) or YAY (mocking, scorn)\\ \\ gûl is BS as in Nazgûl |
+| Yagûl((also spelled "Yagool", see WJ)) | orc of Minas Morgul (mentioned in Sauron Defeated and The War of the Ring), replaced by Gorbag | ? wraith, \\ <del>grey wraith</del> (HG) | ? ya(g) < YA (old) or YAG (gap) as in PN "Moria" or YAY (mocking, scorn)\\ \\ gûl is BS as in Nazgûl |
 | Zaglûn | orc of Minas Morgul (The War of the Ring), replaced by Yagûl and later by Gorbag | | ? zag < SAG (bitter, poison)\\ \\ ? lûn < Doriathrin & Ilkorin "luin" (pale), Noldorin "lhûn" (blue) < Etym. "LUG"[2], "LUY" |
-//Sauron// is the name in Sindarin. //Morgoth// is considered also as Sindarin word (a name give to Melkor by Fëanor) with translations "Black Foe" or "Dark Tyrant". Chapter "The List of Names" of "The Lost Road and Other Writings" states that orcs called him the same but with meaning "Dark Lord". But more frequently he was referred simply as "Goth" ("Master"). Probably this word was later used for Sauron also, specially when he started the cult of Morgoth and even call himself a "Morgoth returned".
+//Sauron// is the name in Quenya (Thauron, Gorthaur in Sindarin). //Morgoth// is considered also as Sindarin word (a name given to Melkor by Fëanor) with translations "Black Foe" or "Dark Tyrant". Chapter "The List of Names" of "The Lost Road and Other Writings" states that orcs called him the same but with meaning "Dark Lord". But more frequently he was referred simply as "Goth" ("Master"). Probably this word was later used for Sauron also, specially when he started the cult of Morgoth and even call himself a "Morgoth returned". In "The Book Of Lost Tales" (HOME 1) there is also a name of servant of Melkor, "Fankil" aka "Fúkil" aka "Fangli" of unknown origin, whose role was later taken by Sauron. "The Lays of Beleriand" (HOME 3) have "Lungorthin" name for lord of Balrogs (untranslated, probably means "Heavy Idol" in Gnomish), which was replaced with "Gothmog" in later writings and published Silmarillion. Beren and Felagund called themselves "Nereb" and "Dungalef" when were disguised as orcs, but these names are mere anagrams of their real names, and thus are not listed here.
 ==== Table of possible Black Speech roots ====
 So below is the list of //possible// Black Speech roots and their meaning in alphabetical order:
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 ===== Places =====
 ^ Black Speech ^ Translation ^ Etymology ^ Source ^
-| Dushgoi | Minas Morgul | if it's a translation of Sindarin name, then "dush" = "morgul" = "(dark) sorcery" and "goi" = "minas" = "city, town with citadel or central watch tower". "Dush" also could be from Valarin "dušamanûðân" (marred) | WJ, WR, SD |
+| Dushgoi | Minas Morgul | if it's a translation of Sindarin name, then "dush" = "morgul" = "(dark) sorcery" and "goi" = "minas" = "city, town with citadel or central watch tower" (compare with Noldorin "gobel" = "a walled house or town"). "Dush" also could be from Valarin "dušamanûðân" (marred) | WJ, WR, SD |
 | Lugbúrz((also spelled without diacritics in WJ)) | Barad-dûr | from Sindarin "dark tower", BS "burzum" (darkness), then "bûrz" means "dark" and "lug" means "tower". In PE 17 Tolkien's translation "fortress, lock-up, prison" is given (spelled "lûg" there, but never so in real drafts for LOTR, only for name "Lûg" of Silmarillion). | LOTR |
 Names like Mordor or Angmar are in Sindarin, not Black Speech.

Nûrlâm –Black Speech dialect wiki

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Nûrlâm –
Black Speech
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