Lessons


Lesson IX – Numbers

Generally, numbers are treated like adjectives. They usually go after the word they modify (again, most orcs would probably ignore this rule). You will also notice that the Ring Verse places them before the word they modify (ash nazg... ). This may have been done for poetic reasons.

Numbers

1 ash     11 galash     30 gakhgal
2 krul 12 galkrul 40 zagal
3 gakh 13 galgakh 50 krâkgal
4 zag 14 galzag 60 rutgal
5 krâk 15 galkrâk 70 utgal
6 rut 16 galrut 80 skragh
7 udu 17 galudu 90 krithgal
8 skri 18 galskri 100 bûr
9 krith 19 galkrith 1000  tor
10  gal 20  krulgal 0 nar

Note that 21 would be krulgalash, 24 = krulgalzag, and so on.


Exercise

Translate the following numbers into Black Speech: 34, 58, 62, 71, 22, 87, 103, 245, 9068, 4862.


 English-specific by Un4givenOrc:

Ordinal Numerals

Ordinal numerals are formed the same way as adjectives. You should suffix -ûrz to a number to get ordinal. So first = âshûrz (the only exception), second = krulûrz, 5th = krâkûrz, 27th = krulgaludûrz and so on.


Word order and measures

Numerals always go after words they modify/count, and this rule is simple. But how to translate more complex expressions like “40 years old”, “six feet tall” etc.? Numbers here modify measures (which are nouns years, feet), which modify adjectives (old, tall). Therefore word order should be Adjective/Adverb, measure, quantity. But it's frustating, so you can use english word order (or choose which way is sounding better). I'll give you examples:

I am 40 years old.
Kul-izg kû ânrothu zagal
Kul-izg zagal ânrothu kû

My devil is six feet tall.
Pauzûl-izub kulat târ fraz rut
Pauzûl-izub kulat rutfraztâr – i really like this!

The way here was two weeks long.
Mûl tul kuluzat sigûrz udârsh krul
Mûl tul kuluzat krul udârsh sigûrz

Gondor is five leagues away from here
Gondor kulat krât fraumu krâk krul-ghâra
Gondor kulat krâk fraumu krât krul-ghâra



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Comments

Scatha  2014-09-24, 04:01:03

Has anyone here ever tried the lessons? I think some of them may need some corrections and updates.  Let me know your thoughts.


bjornaxen  2016-06-08, 09:43:39

The Swedish LARP-orcish Svartiska was not really created by a single LARP-group but by the community of orc-larpers where different groups created different dialects.


bjornaxen  2017-12-15, 00:47:08

On pronunciation

There is an orc name that begins with y - Yagul - in The War of the Ring (The History of Middle Earth, vol. 8 )

I think Tolkien pronounce Mordor in Elvish, it is after all an Elvish name meaning Black land in Sindarin (or "shadows" in Quenya). It has nothing to do with pronunciation of the Black Speech.

And what about the sounds in the excercise: -qu- in "throqu-" and sr- in "srinkh-"? Especially -qu- seems out of place. Why not spell it kv or kw?


Un4givenOrc  2017-12-16, 10:01:39
bjornaxen wrote:

And what about the sounds in the excercise: -qu- in "throqu-" and sr- in "srinkh-"?

Yes, there as some issues with qu, specially when next letter is also u. Could be also spelled like Q. It appears only in words borrowed from elvish languages. I will replace it with something else if I would create new dialect.

I think there is nothing special with sr, for me it's easier to say than thr (thrakatulat).


bjornaxen  2017-12-23, 02:02:28

Does comparative and superlative adjectives, and adverbs mark plural?

The dark tower - lugbûrz; the darkest tower - lugbûrzaz; the darkest towers - lugbûrzazu

urukû ghâshuzat hîzarz lug "the old orc quickly burned the tower"; urukûz ghâshuzut hîzarzu lug "the old orcs quickly burned the tower"
---
edit 1. I saw that the adverb is not agreeing in number so: urukfuz ghâshuzut hîzarz lug
---
edit 2. I saw that I somehow confused the adjectives - this i now corrected.


Un4givenOrc  2017-12-23, 15:41:51

I think adverbs do not have plural form. Adjectives do in any form


bjornaxen  2017-12-25, 21:08:42

There are two collective plural, -hai and -ûk. In contrast to the ordinary plural these can be used with people and races. So we have uruk-hai (the orc people) as the most famous example. And then in the lessons (IV) there is an example of the -ûk ending used with  sharkû (old man) > sharkûk "all old men". So both the collective plurals can be used with people and races but what is the difference between them. What does sharkû-hai mean "all the old people" or maybe "the society of old men" or is it equivalent to sharkûk? Or is it just gibberish.


bjornaxen  2018-01-01, 16:47:30

In lesson XIII on suffix order, verbs collective #6 two endings are given, -ûk and -âzh. The -âzh ending is used with a verb 'ufubulâzh' (will frighten them slightly). I cannot find this -âzh in the lessons or in the wordlists (there is "azh (conj, HORN) "also").

It seems to mean "slightly" but then it is not a collective. Confusing


Un4givenOrc  2018-01-09, 13:27:04
bjornaxen wrote:

n the lessons (IV) there is an example of the -ûk ending used with  sharkû (old man) > sharkûk "all old men". So both the collective plurals can be used with people and races but what is the difference between them. What does sharkû-hai mean "all the old people" or maybe "the society of old men" or is it equivalent to sharkûk? Or is it just gibberish.

I think it's Scatha's mistake.
I don't like interpretation of -hai as collective plural suffix nor simply as "folk", "people of" etc. However I can't offer better one.

bjornaxen wrote:

n lesson XIII on suffix order, verbs collective #6 two endings are given, -ûk and -âzh. The -âzh ending is used with a verb 'ufubulâzh' (will frighten them slightly). I cannot find this -âzh in the lessons or in the wordlists (there is "azh (conj, HORN) "also").

I've added this shortly before my HDD crashed. Online version of dictionary is not updated still.
Here -uuk and -aazh are something like verb's aspect (perfect and "partial" respectively). Interpretation of "-uuk" as "completely", "fully" is taken from A. Nemirovsky's analysis



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