Un4givenOrc wrote:I liked this idea too. But from what I saw in social media, it's clear that people still use simple sentences or copy English grammar. Horngoth also had passive voice suffix but without any clarification how to use it.
As for your examples, it's hard to distinguish patient from agent of action. Either we should use -irzi (by) suffix as in English to mark patient of passive action or make a strict rule for word order. Better both. I'm unsure if person suffix should depend on agent of patient of action. I prefer suffix based on subject=patient
Golug gimbaguzat olog-irzi - The elf was found by the troll
Golug gimbaguzat - The elf was found
Krith nazgu thrâkaguzut sharazu matûrzu**
** adjectives take plural ending too, but animated/person nouns do not have plural. Seems 99.9% people including myself always forget this. That's why this was changed in new dialect.
Since this is all proposed grammar, I'll give my argument for why I'd think passives should work the way I suggested.
I don't like copying English grammar. To me that just turns the language into codified English and not a language proper. Given the chance, I'd avoid copying English whenever I can (Maybe Sauron wouldn't want his language to mirror that of the Men he hates, or he'd want to make it difficult for men to learn it?). That means in my concept of BS, for the passive voice, the subject would not become the patient but remains the agent. The addition of the -ag suffix allows for BS to do this.
I'm looking at this from a non-debased Black Speech point of view. How does the language work as Sauron originally made it?
In the English passive voice the subject has to be the patient because that's how it expresses the passive voice. If we toss out the subject=patient as an Englishism, I think it frees us to do something different. (Japanese, for example, just uses a different verb conjugation but the order of the subject and object nouns isn't effected. They can even do passives that English can't do by using different particles.)
English - Active: The Subject Verb's the Object; Passive: The Object was Verb'ed by the Subject
Old BS - Active: Subject Verb+conj(+1st P. Sub) Object, Passive: Object kul Verb+uga Subject-irzi
Proposed BS - Active: Subject Verb+conj(+1st P. Sub) Object, Passive: Object Verb+ag+conj Subject-irzi
Lug BS - Active: Subject Verb+conj(+1st P. Sub) Object; Passive: Subject Verb+ag+conj(+1st P. Sub) Object
With these, how do they work with pronouns?
The troll attacked me
olog dîsuzizish
I was attacked by the troll
Old BS: ?? kuluz dîsuga??? olog-irzi - Where does the pronoun go? It can't go first as that breaks the "no first person first rule" which I think orcs would hop on when debasing the language, I think the kuluz isn't needed, I don't think -irzi is appropriate*
Pro BS: ?? dîsaguz?? olog-irzi - Where does the pronoun go? same issue as above, don't think -irzi is appropriate*
Lug BS: olog dîsaguzizish - strict word order which never changes, just add the -ag suffix, no possibility of debasing into first person first ***
What about when it's all pronouns and they would normally be attached to the verb as suffixes?
ta dîsuzizish
He attacked me
I was attacked by him
Old BS: ?? kuluz dîsuga?? ??-irzi - maybe it's dîsugataizg**, then neither kul or -irzi does anything
Pro BS: ?? dîsaguz ?? -irzi - maybe it's dîsaguztaizg**, then -irzi does nothing
Lug BS: ta dîsaguzizish - strict word order, just add -ag ***
* -irzi means "by" in the sense of "indicating the means of achieving something", while the "by" in English passive is "identifying the agent performing an action". "By" has two meanings, but -irzi only covers one of them. BS doesn't have the other kind of "by", which suggests that its passive wouldn't work the same way as English's.
** I think these are too confusing to be useful
*** Going with this version means that the passive word order is the same as the active word order, which would probably lead to debased dialects not even using the passive voice most of the time (which seems to be the case as Horngoth was the only one that proposed a passive and it was via a little-used suffix, maybe as a leftover of the original BS). We end up with a construction most orcs would never use as it just makes the sentence longer while allowing someone like Sauron, and his smarter allies, to write passive sentences if they wanted to.
That's my thinking. If we're going to create something new, let's have some fun with it 
**** I don't mind the whole don't-pluralize-peoples-but-pluralize-adjectives. It was just 1:30AM and I was tired from coding all day long 