1

(7 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

Привет и спасибо за отзыв!
Русско-орочий словарь уже есть на сайте, но он не обновлялся с 2011-го года (и не планируется в будущем). Можно его проредить от слов из Svartiska и MERP, но они там никак не помечены (единственное - слова из LOS выделены жирным), нужно сверяться с основным словарём. Также проблемой может быть синхронизация новых слов (планировал обновление словаря в этом месяце - пока откладывается), даты добавления я не ставлю. Системы контроля версий не подключал, да и сайты вроде гитхаба вроде не очень приветствуют файлы, не являющиеся программным кодом. Идеи по решению этого вопроса также приветствуются.

2

(0 replies, posted in Site News)

Lessons VII (Prepositions) and XIII (Suffix order) were heavily modified. Many others were supplied with additional notes (specially Lessons III, IV and X). Сhanges were so huge that next one will probably break compatibility with Shadowlandian Black Speech and mark the birth of new dialect.

Урок VII (Предлоги) и XIII (Порядок суффиксов) были сильно изменены. Многие другие (особенно Уроки III, IV и X) были дополнены комментариями. Изменения были настолько обширными, что, возможно, следующее крупное дополнение сломает совместимость с LOS, и станет рождением нового диалекта.

3

(9 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

How could I forgot this?

doraz (LOS, SV, MERP) gates < obviously from English "doors"

4

(1 replies, posted in Texts in Black Speech)

It's a shame that is was not translated into proper Shadowlandian by it's author.
Approach by Björn Axén

Here is mine for starting 5 rows:

Gakh nazgu Golug-durub-ûru nut-lata
Udu Gazat-goth-ûru ru-ulub-ishiz* gund-ob
Krith Tark/Shara-ûru matûrzu dûmpugaz matat
Ash Gothbûrz-ûr ulîma(bûrz)-tab-ir
Uzg-ishi Mordor-ob amal burgûlu kâtut

* "ru-ulub-ishiz" should be transformed into "rûlub-ishiz"
** Actually Mordor is translated as Dark Land, maybe "Uzgbûrz-ishi amal burgûlu kâtut" is better

5

(1 replies, posted in Texts in Black Speech)

English original:

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie

Here is full ring verse translation “by `Elerrina’ with full analysis in Quettar #16 pp6-7; included without analysis (and `duumpuga’ replaced by `duumpaga’) by Jorge Quinonez in a collection of Ring-verse translations in `Vinyar Tengwar’#13 pp13-15)”.
Some invented words were used by A. Appleyard and then slightly modified by Scatha for creating her Shadowlandian Black Speech.

Gakh Nazgi Ilid/Albai/Golug – durub-uuri lata-nuut.
Udu takob-ishiz gund-ob Gazat-shakh-uuri.
Krith Shara-uuri matuurz matat duumpuga.
Ash tug Shakhbuurz-uur Uliima-tab-ishi za,
Uzg-Mordor-ishi amal fauthut burguuli.
Ash nazg durbatulûk
ash nazg gimbatul
ash nazg thrakatulûk
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
Uzg-Mordor-ishi amal fauthut burguuli

6

(9 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

-lob (LOS) female-, she- < taken from Shelob as female suffix, but "Shelob" is just "she-web" in Old English. So, meaning is not the same, but it makes this borrowing from real language more stupid

hag, haglob (LOS) unpleasant man, woman  < from English "hag" (witch, old woman)
tere (SV) earth, ground, soil < Latin "terra"

7

(1 replies, posted in Remarks And Suggestions)

bjornaxen wrote:

I could not find a LoS-version of the Ring Verse so I wrote one myself

I believe I saw it somewhere, but now it seems unavailable. It was based on Elerrina's translation, which used -i suffix for plurals

I've found only some other fans' translations

8

(1 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

I will move this topic to "Black Speech talks" section 'cause it already has some words offerings.

"okh" also similar to MERP's "okat" (to crawl), that's nice!
"gât-" already meaning "punish" in Svartiska, confusing a little

9

(9 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

Thanks!
Therefore "gul" will be also conneted to German "gelb" and much less obvious to English "yellow". I think this word appeared in dictionaries by mistake during translations and rewritings.
As for "fugul", it's actually written as "fulug", so I haven't noticed a similarity. Compare also with Quenya's "filik", so I will not mark it as "deprecated" word yet.

Since this site was published, I've been adding new words to the dictionary. But this summer I've started a raid on words derived from real-world languages. You can check full list of such words. Most obvious (about 100) borrowings were marked as "depr" (deprecated) in the dictionary. I've also provided short etymology for these words and some Quenya-originated too. But shortening a dictionary which was already short would be a bad news, so I had to invent a lot of words instead of articles marked as deprecated (fortunately most of them already had an alternative).
So it's time to update your dictionary copy!


Я добавлял новые слова в словарь с момента открытия сайта. Но этим летом я начал давно намеченный крестовый поход против слов, заимствованных из языков реального мира. Полный список таких слов будет пополняться. Самые очевидные заимствования (около 100) были помечены в словаре как "depr" (deprecated - нежелательные). Для всех нежелательных слов, а также некоторых других (например взятых из Квеньи), добавлена колонка с краткой этимологией.
Но сокращение и без того небольшого словаря было бы плохой новостью, поэтому мне пришлось изобрести довольно много новых слов (к счастью большинство заимствованных слов альтернатива уже существовала).
В общем, пришло время обновить вашу копию словаря!

11

(9 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

tath (SV) tooth < common word for Indo-European languages (specially Old English "tōþ", Frisian "toth", Sanskrit दत् [dát])
tol (MERP) wire < probably from Turkish "tel" (wire, string, thread)
torb (MERP) peat < compare with Russian & Polish "torf", Turkish "turba"
trupp (SV, MERP) body of person < Slavic "trup" body (usually about dead)

vaj (MERP) oil, voj (SV, MERP) oil, grease < Hungarian "vaj" (butter) and other Finno-Ugric languages (Finnish "voi", Estonian "või", etc.)
val (MERP) wave < Slavic "val", "volna", "fala" - (sea) hush, water wave, roller

zakriv- (SV) to close < Slavic (Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian) "zakrivati"
zigan (SV < ZF) gypsy < Slavic "cigan" < Greek "τσίγγανος" [tsigganos]
zund(um) (HORN) sand < already similar, compare with Dutch "zand"


ADDED:
znak (LOS) letter
znakat (LOS) to write
znakal (LOS) writer, scribe
znaku (LOS) alphabet
- all from Slavic word "znak" (sign)

ADDED:
zalbur (HORN) silver < German "silber" and Dutch "zilver"

12

(9 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

sahat (SV, MERP, HORN) hour < Turkish "saat"
shagît (SV, HORN) arrow, also shaugit (MERP) < Latin "sagitta"
shakh (LOS, HORN) lord; (SV) master, leader, Sir < Persian "شاه" [šâh] (Shah, king)
shakh (HORN) champion, hero < same as above + Sanskrit "kshatra" (warrior)
shakîrr- (SV, MERP) to cut up, rip, unpick <  proto-Indo-European "sek-" (cut). Compare with Latin "seco", Slavic "sěč" (battle, to cut), "sekira" (axe)
shatul (LOS, SV, MERP, HORN) column, pillar, post, pole, peg < probably from Turkish "sütun"?
shaug-batar (SV) arrow rain < Latin "sagitta" (see "shagît" above)
shol (SV) Sun < Latin "Sol"
sjuk (MERP) sick < literally from Swedish

skût (LOS, SV, MERP, HORN) shield, buckler (HORN),
skût (LOS, SV, MERP, HORN) defense,
skûtg- (HORN) parry, fend off,
skûtog- (LOS, SV) parry, defend,
skûtûrz (LOS, SV, HORN) defensive < all from Proto-Indo-European "skeit" (shield, cover). Compare with Latin "scutum", Slavic "ščit", Irish "sciath" etc.

strizg (MERP, HORN) war < probably from Icelandic "stríð"
su (MERP) eye < maybe from Irish "súl"

to be continued...

13

(9 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

lang-maush (SV, MERP) meat soup, broth < questionable resemblance to "Lamian" (Chinese simpl. 拉面, trad.: 拉麵; Kazakh "lagman") - meat soup made of very long noodle. But literal translation from Black Speech is "ill meat"

lopat (MERP) shovel < from Slavic "lopata"
madargon (SV, MERP) belladonna (plant) < obviously from "Mandragora" which is also from Nightshade family
mâl (LOS) yellow < actually from Quenya "malina", which is taken from Welsh. Should we count such borrowings too?
mamuz (SV, MERP) spur < Turkish "mahmur"
mon (SV) moon < no comments
mûk (SV) mold < from Greek "μούχλα" (translit.: mouhla"); maybe also from "μύκης" (translit: mykis, mykes) meaning "fungi", "mushroom"
nat (MERP) night < obviously from Germanic languages (the closest is "Natt" in Swedish and Norwegian)
noz (SV) knife < from Slavic "nož"
og (SV, HORN) eye < from Swedish "öga"
ognir (MERP) terror, horror < from Icelandic "ógn" (threat, horror)
ol (HORN) ale, beer < similar to English "ale", but closer to "øl" (Norwegian, Danish), Swedish "öl"
onrein (MERP) dirty < from Icelandic "óhreinn"
pam (SV, MERP, HORN) fruit < probably from Romance languages "pomo", "pomme" meaning "apple"
par (SV, MERP) money, (HORN) coin, also many derivatives < Turkish "para" with same meanings
paraun(d) (SV, MERP) parent < looks like it's translation perverted
rethr- (HORN) retreat < the same as above, "rejthar" (SV, MERP) is more perverted version I believe


to be continued...

ADDED:
pal (MERP, HORN), pall (SV) scimitar, hooked sabre < from Turkish "pala" (sword, scimitar)

14

(9 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

hambar (SV, MERP, HORN) store, stock, storehouse, to store < from Turkish "ambar" (also in Russian)
hnifur (SV, MERP) knife < already similar to translation, but literally from Icelandic (hníf, hnífur)
hundur (SV, MERP) dog < from Germanic "Hund" (compare with English "hound") - already mentioned
iz (SV) from < lit. from Slavic languages
jatagan (SV, MERP) sabre, scimitar < from Turkish "yatağan"
jug (SV, MERP) South < from Slavic languages - already mentioned
kafak (SV, MERP, HORN) skull < probably from Turkish "kafa" (head)
kafâz (all dialects) cage < probably from Turkish "kafes"
kala (LOS, SV, MERP) castle < Turkish "kale"
katran (SV, MERP) tar < Turkish
Kazan (SV, MERP) kettle, cauldron < from Turkish (also some Slavic languages)
kjaftur (SV, MERP) shout, scream < probably from Icelandic word meaning "jaws", "mouth"
kordh (SV, MERP) two-handed sword < probably from Tajik "kord" (knife)
krov (SV) blood < Slavic
kumash (SV, MERP) milk < from kumis (koumiss, kımız, qımız etc.) - Turkiс word for soured/fermented horse (mare) milk
kûmûr (SV, MERP) coal < Turkish "kömür"
kurf, kurv (LOS, SV) prostitute < from Slavic (specially Polish) "kurwa"

to be continued...

ADDED:
hîs (LOS) fast, quick < Turkish "hızlı" (probably accidental similarity)
kazorm (SV< MERP) barracks < Slavic "kazarma", German "Kaserne" < Italian "casa d'arme" (arm-house) or Spanish "caserne" (big house)

ADDED:
korb (MERP) raven < Latin "corvus"

15

(9 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

It's hard to say where is real borrowing and where is occasional coincidence. And we are short of specialists in Asian languages, from which some words could be borrowed too

aent SV tree < ent?
agon, auga SV eye < from germanic "auge"
dal, dâl (HORN, LOS) field, plain < from Germanic group (Tal, dal, dale)? Meaning is not the same, but related
dar- (SV, MERP) give < from Slavic "dar" (gift, present), "dariti" (make gift, donate)
darûk (LOS, SV) fool, darûkûrz "silly" < from Slavic "durak", "duren"?
dru (MERP, LOS) wood, tree < could be from both Scandinavian ("tre", "tree") and Slavic ("drevo", "drvo", "derevo")
dva (SV) two < already similar to its translation, this word is common for almost every Indo-European language, but Slavic is exactly "dva"
eitur (MERP) poison < 100% Icelandic
esh, esht (SV) be, exist < from Latin "est", Germanic "ist", Slavic "est' "?
fahr (SV) four < no comments
fanar (SV, MERP, HORN) lamp, lantern < Turkish "fener", Slavic "fenjer", "fonar' " - all from greek "phanos", "phanari"
fauldush (LOS, MERP, HORN) ivory < from Turkish "fildişi"?

to be continued...

EDIT:
alimant (SV) element < no comments
baum (SV, MERP) plant, herb; (HORN) seedling < German "baum" (tree)
furtun (LOS, SV, MERP, HORN) storm < Turkish "fırtına"

16

(6 replies, posted in Site Comments)

Should I add information about real language sources into dictionary?

17

(6 replies, posted in Site Comments)

And some Turkish-like too, i.e. Kazan, Jatagan
plural suffix -i can also be from Latin

18

(6 replies, posted in Site Comments)

2350 roughly, but this includes different spellings of same word, cognate words and some Shadowlandian words marked as SV (however I haven't found some of them in my pure Svartiska sources).
The whole dictionary here is based on Red Hand wordlist by Lugrekh, but it is being slowly corrected and appended since opening of this site. All sources are listed in "Links" section, but most of them  are gone now

19

(5 replies, posted in Site Comments)

The link explains that setting was not Tolkienish... so was the language
Thx!

20

(2 replies, posted in Site News)

Finally, a great site about Svartiska too! Unfortunately only in Swedish. You can try it here

Наконец-то отличный сайт также и о диалекте Svartiska! К сожалению, только на шведском. Попытаться что-то понять можно здесь.

21

(0 replies, posted in Site News)

Since Horngoth dialect's original page is down, this site now features a copy of it, which was kindly furnished by it's author, Robert Eaglestone (RE)! Check it!


Оригинальная страница диалекта Horngoth больше недоступна, но Robert Eaglestone, автор диалекта, любезно предоставил копию, которая теперь размещена здесь виде отдельной страницы.

22

(2 replies, posted in Site News)

German-speaking users can also use dialect by Shapog'gur LARP group. They developed LOS independently. Contains online dictionary and interactive exercises.

Обнаружен немецкий диалект от группы Shapog'gur. Это самостоятельное развитие идей LOS. Онлайн-словарь и интерактивные упражнения прилагаются.

23

(0 replies, posted in Site News)

I didn't make any announces for a long time, but there were a lot of changes. Many lessons were updated or even completely revised. And of course new words were added into dictionary.
Thanks for all people who suggested new words and asked me questions!
Don't be shy, ask me on forum or by e-mail if you can't translate something or want to invent new words.


Я не делал анонсов больше двух лет, но за это время многое изменилось. Были обновлены почти все уроки, некоторые почти полностью переписаны (в основном мои собственные). И конечно же обновился словарь.
Хочу поблагодарить всех, кто интересовался проектом, предлагал новые слова, правила, задавал вопросы!
Не стесняйтесь спрашивать на форуме или через электронную почту, если вы не можете что-то перевести или хотите предложить новые слова, отсутствующие в словаре.

24

(7 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

All content here is taken from this site but with my remarks and corrections (usually highlighted with different font).
It could sound strange, but I never registered on big Tolkien-fan forums. Maybe we shall advertise the site there or on some related facebook's communities, if they exists. The link on The Land Of Shadow would help too, since it's ranked high by Google (actually there was a link in news section, hard to find)

25

(7 replies, posted in Black Speech talks)

Hello, Scatha!
I'd never hoped to meet you and let myself to continue your work. I'd like to hear your opinion and critics!

Actually, there was little feedback after starting this site, mostly on popular Russian image board. It seems you're 4th real user of this forum sad